Jesus Camp Trailer
Religion strenght and country development usually go hand in hand if you look historically and US is pretty "developed" in many ways. Im not saying the figures are wrong though. Middle part of US for sure has alot of different clans/cults and so on that are strong, lots of militia groups that want their own land and stuff in those parts to, so why not a big % that do this....
I didn't. What I said was that it is alot more free than most other countries. I agree that they aren't perfect. This admin has probably reduced freedom in the US. However, that doesn't change the fact that people in the US have a hell of alot of freedom.<ankh> wrote:Free market yes - but to call america "The Land Of Freedom" is just plain stupid.
Only broadcast TV, not cable. However, I agree it would be better if they didn't. They are trying to protect children who hear 100 times worse anyway.We're talking about a land where you cannot swear or show nudity on telly.
Globalisation and capitalism is not resisted by all other countries. The reason that alot are going capitalist is that it works. I am not sure that providing incentives is immoral on behalf of the US ... those countries will be better off if the modernise.You really think its freedom when they force their way of living onto others? Just because other countries doesnt live by the same standards as United States it doesnt mean they want to do it.
We're talking about a land who tells others how they should live and run their countries - that doesnt sound much like freedom to me.
Now, spreading democracy by force is another question. However, If you actually do spread democracy ... then you are giving the people of the country the choice as to what they want to do. I have little problem with them toppling dictators. What they are doing is forcing certain governments out of power.
Edit: But let's stick to the main issue - the christian soldiers. Cos im pretty sure you and I can argue about what freedom is and what we think about the united states for ever.
Edit: then again, this thread was about american extremists so I guess we're on the right track afterall
http://www.apple.com/trailers/independe ... tofascism/
/Ankh
Prydwen
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<ankh> wrote:But why do you think that christians are so much different from muslims when it comes to strong beliefs?
Ankh, Ankh, my dear fellow...
I know I said I wouldn't post again on this thread Ankh, but with all due respect you don't know what you're talking about. In fact, you can't know what you're talking about, because you yourself are not a "born-again" Christian. I don't say that with the intention of stirring up ill-feeling, or anything like that (if I do, I apologise), but because it's impossible for anyone who is not a "born-again" Christian to understand what it is to be "born-again".
Perhaps a simply analogy would suffice:- Someone who is born totally blind, (i.e. so blind that they not only cannot define shapes, but cannot even define dark from light) cannot know what it is to see. It's impossible, because they have never experienced the sensation of being able to see. Now imagine that someone suddenly cured that person's blindness and imagine the impact that would have! That's the difference between a "born-again" Christian and someone who isn't "born-again". You need to experience what it is to be "born-again" to understand the truth. I know that is very arrogant of me to say, but it happens to be the truth as I see it. That's why there is a great chasm of difference between those who say they are "Christian" just because they live in a "Christian" country and those who really are.
I know you (and no doubt many others) will now go on to say that I am talking a load of bull**** and flame me etc, etc, but that just proves even more to me that you (and they) are not yet "born-again" and therefore are unable to speak with any authority. I would not be so arrogant to presume that my faith is stronger than anyone elses, but I believe what I believe, and if I cannot (or am not allowed to) speak what I know to be the truth, then where is freedom of speech?
I repeat, I don't say the above to incite hatred or "flame", but because I believe I have the freedom of speech to correct those who are in error, if I believe they are in error. I don't expect for one minute for you to agree with me, but I know you well enough to know that you will respect me for what I believe, just as I respect you and what you do (or don't) believe.
That is why I believe it is a mistake for people to make comments when they don't know all the facts]
Amazing Grace
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me....
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.
T'was Grace that taught...
my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear...
the hour I first believed.
Through many dangers, toils and snares...
we have already come.
T'was Grace that brought us safe thus far...
and Grace will lead us home.
The Lord has promised good to me...
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be...
as long as life endures.
When we've been here ten thousand years...
bright shining as the sun.
We've no less days to sing God's praise...
then when we've first begun.
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me....
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.
[/QUOTE]
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<ankh>
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Don't worry mate - I don't expect somebody religous to ever use common sense 
so I won't flame you for sharing your beliefs (and tbh, I shouldnt as your entitled to your opinion just as me).
[quote="Gandelf"]That is why I believe it is a mistake for people to make comments when they don't know all the facts]
...im amazed how a religious person can say something like this.. especially as there isnt any proof of your god existing
(more than the usual "I feel it in my heart" and similar things)
...then again, you did what every religious person do... the second part of the quote.."reched a level"...it could aswell have been "spoken to god" or "had a vision" or what ever you prefer to call it. Amazing how religion can have so incredible amount of followers when really there is no proof of his existance more than mouth to mouth stories (or the great comedy known as the bible). I guess they all dream away from our world and and hope there is something better.
Anyway, sorry for the bible comment within the brackets...I don't mean to offend your religion.
Science > Religion
so I won't flame you for sharing your beliefs (and tbh, I shouldnt as your entitled to your opinion just as me).[quote="Gandelf"]That is why I believe it is a mistake for people to make comments when they don't know all the facts]
...im amazed how a religious person can say something like this.. especially as there isnt any proof of your god existing
(more than the usual "I feel it in my heart" and similar things)...then again, you did what every religious person do... the second part of the quote.."reched a level"...it could aswell have been "spoken to god" or "had a vision" or what ever you prefer to call it. Amazing how religion can have so incredible amount of followers when really there is no proof of his existance more than mouth to mouth stories (or the great comedy known as the bible). I guess they all dream away from our world and and hope there is something better.
Anyway, sorry for the bible comment within the brackets...I don't mean to offend your religion.
Science > Religion
Guess so .
.Prydwen
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I tried to search on Google for stories about people who are "born again" because of some miracle but I couldn't find anything other than a few stories from the bible and some religious propoganda.
Where can I find out about some of these miracles that have led people to be "born again"? Preferably ones with some amount of factual grounding to them that also have no other possible explanation and are undeniably true.
The problem is, that I'm not convinced any miracles you mention that lead to people being "born again" have actually happened and if they have that they're not simply explainable by something else. If this is the case then everything you said is entirely irrelevant.
[quote="Gandelf"]That is why I believe it is a mistake for people to make comments when they don't know all the facts] I've done the research but could find nothing to suggest anything you're claiming here is true. What makes you so sure your eyes are open? It seems more like you have them clenched so tightly you can't see the obvious, but again this is exactly the same problem that islamic terrorists have, so Ankh's very right in saying that Christians are no better than Muslims - you're only serving to prove that with your ignorance of not just the facts, but other people who beleive so blindly in their religions that Christians are equally guilty in terms of their extreme beleifs. The worrying fact is Gandelf, that you beleive so strongly in your religion that had you been bought up with some slightly less pleasant parents you could yourself have been turned into a suicide bomber if that is what you had been taught. It's hard to understand when we hear about a tragedy involving Islamic terrorism how these people were so far brainwashed into beleiving and doing these things, but again they're no further brainwashed than people of any other religion who beleive so strongly as yourself Gandelf.
Where can I find out about some of these miracles that have led people to be "born again"? Preferably ones with some amount of factual grounding to them that also have no other possible explanation and are undeniably true.
The problem is, that I'm not convinced any miracles you mention that lead to people being "born again" have actually happened and if they have that they're not simply explainable by something else. If this is the case then everything you said is entirely irrelevant.
[quote="Gandelf"]That is why I believe it is a mistake for people to make comments when they don't know all the facts] I've done the research but could find nothing to suggest anything you're claiming here is true. What makes you so sure your eyes are open? It seems more like you have them clenched so tightly you can't see the obvious, but again this is exactly the same problem that islamic terrorists have, so Ankh's very right in saying that Christians are no better than Muslims - you're only serving to prove that with your ignorance of not just the facts, but other people who beleive so blindly in their religions that Christians are equally guilty in terms of their extreme beleifs. The worrying fact is Gandelf, that you beleive so strongly in your religion that had you been bought up with some slightly less pleasant parents you could yourself have been turned into a suicide bomber if that is what you had been taught. It's hard to understand when we hear about a tragedy involving Islamic terrorism how these people were so far brainwashed into beleiving and doing these things, but again they're no further brainwashed than people of any other religion who beleive so strongly as yourself Gandelf.
OFFICER XEST - PROTECTING YOU AGAINST FORUM CRIME
Che Xefan, el presidente.
Che Xefan, el presidente.
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<ankh>
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Im sure the ones who followed Branch Davidians thought they were the true christians too... same thing with the ones who burned witches...
Edit: Oops, forgot half of this post. What I was supposed to have typed was: What makes you belive that your christian way is THE only true christian way btw? Please, Im not trying to flame you or anything...I just want you to enlighten me and make me understand. (cos atm I don't see any difference between you or any other confused religious person)
Edit2: A bit unfair thing to compare with, but Im sure the Schutzstaffel or Hamas suiciders were convinced what they were doing was right too. Infact, they belived in it so much that they were willing to die for their beliefs. Would you be ready to die for Jesus?
Edit3: Oh btw - you sound abit like my ex-gf's sister who's a member of seventh day adventist church.
/Ankh
this one was ment as a joke mate - so dont take it seriously)
Edit: Oops, forgot half of this post. What I was supposed to have typed was: What makes you belive that your christian way is THE only true christian way btw? Please, Im not trying to flame you or anything...I just want you to enlighten me and make me understand. (cos atm I don't see any difference between you or any other confused religious person)
Edit2: A bit unfair thing to compare with, but Im sure the Schutzstaffel or Hamas suiciders were convinced what they were doing was right too. Infact, they belived in it so much that they were willing to die for their beliefs. Would you be ready to die for Jesus?
Edit3: Oh btw - you sound abit like my ex-gf's sister who's a member of seventh day adventist church.
/Ankh
(see, I can quote songs by fanatics tooSS marschiert in Feindesland
Und singt ein Teufelslied
Ein Schütze steht am Wolgastrand
Und leise summt er mit
Wir pfeifen auf Unten und Oben
Und uns kann die ganze Welt
Verfluchen oder auch loben,
Grad wie es jedem gefällt
Wo wir sind da geht's immer vorwärts
Und der Teufel, der lacht nur dazu
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Wir kämpfen für Deutschland
Wir kämpfen für Hitler
Der Rote kommt niemals zur Ruh'
Wir kämpften schon in mancher Schlacht
In Nord, Süd, Ost und West
Und stehen nun zum Kampf bereit
Gegen die rote Pest
SS wird nicht ruh'n wir vernichten
Bis niemand mehr stört Deutschlands Glück
Und wenn sich die Reihen auch lichten
Für uns gibt es nie ein zurück
this one was ment as a joke mate - so dont take it seriously)
I hate all fanatics, be they Christian, Muslim or whatever.
I never really got around the fact that people are allowed to go around and thinking a god exists when its clearly a state of insanity to think something like that. I mean, people get sent to mental institutes for equal beliefs.
I never really got around the fact that people are allowed to go around and thinking a god exists when its clearly a state of insanity to think something like that. I mean, people get sent to mental institutes for equal beliefs.
Woho! I got a 360 \o/
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<ankh>
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It's called freedom + the majority of humanity apparently belives in something godlike or higher being (excluding me and most people I know)Heta wrote:I never really got around the fact that people are allowed to go around and thinking a god exists when its clearly a state of insanity to think something like that. I mean, people get sent to mental institutes for equal beliefs.
/Ankh