Petition against car tracking

[Gandelf]

I can fully appreciate the need to reduce environmentally damaging mobility, but it seems strange that UK governments spent 20-30 years encouraging private mobility & demolishing public transport only to suddenly turn round & punish people for faithfully following successive governments policies, when what we really need are new forms of mobility which aren't environmentally damaging.

Agree.

[Gandelf]

I'd be surprised if they tracked tourists vehicles tbh, most countries like to encourage tourism. When I was in Canada the last few weeks they had a tourist incentive program that has let me claim back all government (but not provincial other than Ontario) taxes on purchases and hotel costs - I'd imagine we'd have a similar tourist incentive program on tracking tourist vehicles, i.e. we wouldn't track them.

Can't imagine that happening in the UK, we're such a small island and the Government will really only use car tracking as an excuse to line the pockets of the politicians. They won't spend it where it's needed most. Corrupt, that's what the UK Government is! What's the difference, for example, of travelling 100 miles to go to the seaside for a holiday, or doing the same journey to visit a relative? Answer: there is no difference to the politician who will be rubbing his/her hands knowing that that's where his/her annual pay rise of 60% is coming from!

[<ankh>]

Many of the ones who signed did so just cos they don't want to pay for things - I seriously doubt they even care what the money goes to or why the new law will be implanted.

/Ankh

[Xest]

What trains? The rail network is by and large non-existent in most of the UK

Non-existent? you have to be kidding, there's trains connecting every major city in the UK. You're really struggling to understand the situation, that's the real problem - you're completely missing the point of this whole system the government proposes. The crux of it is that:

- Long journeys can be replaced by the UK's extensive train network that connects every major city in the country

- Inner city journeys, where bus systems are absolutely fine can be replaced with buses

- Outer city journeys, where bus system and train coverage is weak aren't going to be congested areas and hence private vehicles can be used as they always have been

Then it's up to them to create a counter-petition if they feel so strongly about it.

Why would they? The government is going to go ahead with it anyway (unless Tony Blair does a cry-baby u-turn which admittedly isn't too out of character for him) so there's little point right now.

How many of those 58.6 million people might vote against the Government's proposal, but haven't done so already... probably another million or two at least.

So because 3.4 million by your figures don't want it, the other 56.6 million should just have to accept their decision, funny I thought we lived in a democracy.

It's not that I'm opposed to the Government doing something, but I don't think that tracking is the answer. There are other ways. The root of the problem is that anyone can own a car. Therefore, the best solution is to restrict who can drive them. Maybe raise the age where you can drive to 18 or even 21? Maybe restrict the number of vehicles per household? Maybe limit the number of licences?

Oh so you're recommending discrimination as a solution? Not surprising from someone who no doubt follows the Christian view that homosexuals don't deserve the same rights as Christians I guess. How would you feel however if they determined that you were one of the people that didn't deserve a license? How would you do your rural travel then, which as mentioned above isn't the type of travel that's really going to cost anymore than it does now. Again, the whole point is to make people consider using public transport to replace private vehicles in the places they can, but allow them to continue using private vehicles in the places they can't - if people aren't willing to be less lazy and use alternative systems then it's time for them to pay for that laziness. Your method of removing/reducing licenses doesn't achieve this goal.

If people can't do their weekly shop using their car, how are they going to do it?

Most supermarkets are out of town so why couldn't they do their shop by car? A lot of supermarkets aren't in congested areas so shopping at them wouldn't cause any additional cost. Also of course, you do realise there are people in this country unable to drive such as some of the elderly who deal with this very problem okay on a weekly basis? Even if you got rid of your car as a result of the scheme there's always online shopping, online supermarkets will deliver inside 2hr time slots including slots outside working hours to ensure the service is available to everybody. I'd imagine delivery services will be have some kind of exemption or reduction in costs.

The Government hasn't even said that delivery vehicles and trade vehicles will be exempt. So prices of goods and services will increase, so it's not just motorists who will be hit! It will be the elderly and the out of work too!

Are you trying to be ignorant to somehow make it look like you have an argument or are you honestly that stupid? For everything the government does wrong they're not so idiotic as to destroy the economy like that, we've had a Labour government for years now and our economy is still one of the best in the world - any extra charges to delivery companies, if there is any at all will be very carefully determined so as to ensure it's business as usual, there maybe a price increase but it's not going to be so large that it really matters in the long run.

when what we really need are new forms of mobility which aren't environmentally damaging.

That's great in theory but these new forms of mobility don't yet exist in a form that's widely available and that's just the problem with a lot of the world in dealing with the pollution issue - too many people are saying "Oh we can just carry on polluting until the super-megacar 2000 that doesn't pollute is built and switch to that", the problem is we can't wait, if we wait it could very potentially be too late, we need action now, it's not something we can keep procrastinating over.

Can't imagine that happening in the UK, we're such a small island and the Government will really only use car tracking as an excuse to line the pockets of the politicians. They won't spend it where it's needed most. Corrupt, that's what the UK Government is! What's the difference, for example, of travelling 100 miles to go to the seaside for a holiday, or doing the same journey to visit a relative? Answer: there is no difference to the politician who will be rubbing his/her hands knowing that that's where his/her annual pay rise of 60% is coming from!

MPs aren't really paid that much, particularly for the hours they often work, your comments are simple paranoia and nothing else.

[OohhoO]

That's great in theory but these new forms of mobility don't yet exist in a form that's widely available and that's just the problem with a lot of the world in dealing with the pollution issue - too many people are saying "Oh we can just carry on polluting until the super-megacar 2000 that doesn't pollute is built and switch to that", the problem is we can't wait, if we wait it could very potentially be too late, we need action now, it's not something we can keep procrastinating over.

If every motorised vehicle in the UK never ever drove another foot it would reduce world polution by how much exactly?
0.00000000000001%?
We needed action a decade or two ago, whilst most major governments were playing the three wise monkeys.
Iirc the major polluters are your friends in the USofA who officially refused to believe the problem even existed until very recently whilst pumping more shit into the atmosphere year for year than any other entire continent.
Major development lands like China aren't going to help the situation much either.
More money invested in research & development of new solutions might be a better solution at this point than putting an ideological plaster over a severed carotid.

[Xest]

If every motorised vehicle in the UK never ever drove another foot it would reduce world polution by how much exactly?
0.00000000000001%?

This article suggests that cars are responsible for 20% of the UK's carbon emissions (no suprise they're a target huh?):

http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/press_rel ... 42006.html

This list puts the UK as the world's 7th largest polluter with 2.3% of emissions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _emissions

So by that, the UK's cars are responsible for around 0.46% of the world's pollution, that's quite a lot - enough to say, give us a fair few more years of frozen ice caps. It's absolutely not too late to start cutting carbon emissions in this way, whilst cutting them likely wont reverse the situation it will slow it, giving us chance to find those longer-term miracle solutions you mention, what's more is that it has been said that at least some of the extra money the government makes from these taxes has been earmarked for research into green technologies also so it's pretty much win-win in the respect that it buys us time and moves us towards green alternatives.

I don't think there's anyone saying the US and China aren't bigger threats, but we can't exactly preach to them about climate change if we haven't done anything to prevent it ourselves can we? The US' argument is that cutting carbon emissions will weaken their economy in comparison to other nations, if other nations take the lead and cut their carbon emissions first then the US no longer has an argument and has to take action.

[OohhoO]

The US' argument is that cutting carbon emissions will weaken their economy in comparison to other nations, if other nations take the lead and cut their carbon emissions first then the US no longer has an argument and has to take action.

Aye I have to agree 0.46% is actually quite a lot.

Other nations have been taking steps to reduce carbon emissions for years tho. That's what the Kyoto protocol & it's predecessors were supposedly for. None of which seemed to make any positive impression on the US at all, so unfortunately there's no real reason to hope this would either.

[Lieva]

Indeed, but if it only takes you 15minutes by car then this new set of proposals shouldn't bother you anyway because you a) Clearly don't travel that far and hence aren't effected by point 1 above and b) Clearly don't drive in a congested area and hence wont be suffering the extra costs of driving in a congested area that vehicle tracking will achieve.

the roads are busy at night when i go home

but the reason i made that point was because the whole reason the goverment argues for these proposals and gets them through is because they want more people to use public transportation and not use cars so much.
The fact is it takes a heck of alot longer to use the bus not to mention alot more expensive than my monthy allowance (granted the year bus pass is cheeper and i will be looking into that) so people are forced to use cars.

[Lieva]

[quote="Satyn"]haha you're good hun ... so good ]

actually no - hes just repetative.

[Xest]

actually no - hes just repetative.

Actually his jibes are always rather original