I would have agreed if was more 'normal' subjects but as we're talking about a war thats claimed 100k+ civilian lifes and ruined one of the oldest civilizations on earth I really can't agree with you.
Edit: thought I might add THIS to the discussion.
Edit: and THIS one (pretty much the same info tho)
/Ankh
Terror Bomb in London
I dunno,
I would tend to follow Mojo's line on this one. After the Hutton Inquiry there was no doubt that something had happened to the intelligence dossier and with Alastair Campbell's involvement. Like a lot of people I was kind of very shocked that the government got off scot free. The enquiry looked like it had uncovered evidence of 'crafting' in the dossier that was used to convince Parliament.
Evidence of intelligence it seems is very contingent and so it depends on the way in which you interpret it. If you look for trouble there is one thing this episode has taught us you will find it. I am left wondering why there was such a willful and forced interpretation. It was all one way - why not a more circumspect approach to allow the politicians to decide? Instead we had the glossing over of the 3 minute claim in relation to battlefield weapons being mixed with 3 min claims of an intercontinental attack.
It is all very murky and Hutton did not do anything to fix the problem. True Blair did not have to call the enquiry but neither did Hutton have to bury the claims with a very very narrow interpretation of his remit. It is ok to know your spinning things but it is not ok to spin the country into war.
I think it is incredibly naive in this instance to just buy the pro labour line that 'Tony' was misled. He is a good leader possibly one of the greatest Prime Ministers we have ever had. But this will go down as his biggest mistake - you have to ask yourself why did he not err on the side of caution?
Sharkith
I would tend to follow Mojo's line on this one. After the Hutton Inquiry there was no doubt that something had happened to the intelligence dossier and with Alastair Campbell's involvement. Like a lot of people I was kind of very shocked that the government got off scot free. The enquiry looked like it had uncovered evidence of 'crafting' in the dossier that was used to convince Parliament.
Evidence of intelligence it seems is very contingent and so it depends on the way in which you interpret it. If you look for trouble there is one thing this episode has taught us you will find it. I am left wondering why there was such a willful and forced interpretation. It was all one way - why not a more circumspect approach to allow the politicians to decide? Instead we had the glossing over of the 3 minute claim in relation to battlefield weapons being mixed with 3 min claims of an intercontinental attack.
It is all very murky and Hutton did not do anything to fix the problem. True Blair did not have to call the enquiry but neither did Hutton have to bury the claims with a very very narrow interpretation of his remit. It is ok to know your spinning things but it is not ok to spin the country into war.
I think it is incredibly naive in this instance to just buy the pro labour line that 'Tony' was misled. He is a good leader possibly one of the greatest Prime Ministers we have ever had. But this will go down as his biggest mistake - you have to ask yourself why did he not err on the side of caution?
Sharkith
Na Fianna Dragun
Karak-Eight Peaks, Kiera ze Witch Hunter
Eve online - Kaminjosvig.
Karak-Eight Peaks, Kiera ze Witch Hunter
Eve online - Kaminjosvig.
Again, what the FUCK are you on about?ilaya wrote:u daft? have u totally lost your grip on reality? u are madder than me and thats going some.
Consider yourself thread banned until you can think up something useful to add to the conversation other than random flames towards me. PM me if you think you have something useful to contribute and I'll lift it.
OFFICER XEST - PROTECTING YOU AGAINST FORUM CRIME
Che Xefan, el presidente.
Che Xefan, el presidente.
Xest chill - there is not need to go ballistic. Someone sitting on the side of a conversation basiclly thinks your mad - what else is new. Banning him kind of provides evidence that you might actually BE MAD!!Xest wrote:Again, what the FUCK are you on about?
Consider yourself thread banned until you can think up something useful to add to the conversation other than random flames towards me. PM me if you think you have something useful to contribute and I'll lift it.
Na Fianna Dragun
Karak-Eight Peaks, Kiera ze Witch Hunter
Eve online - Kaminjosvig.
Karak-Eight Peaks, Kiera ze Witch Hunter
Eve online - Kaminjosvig.
That's the point though Sharkith, can he realistically err on the side of caution if for all he knew the intelligence he was being given was the truth?
Don't get me wrong I'm not defending Labour here, nor am I saying I beleive they were innocent in it all, I'm partly just playing devils advocate and partly saying you can't just totally blame Tony himself because he could've been somewhat setup as a puppet by those who did want to go to war for some alternate reason - Tony is a powerful person and he seems like a pretty decent person too, that's why I think to assume it was his personal mistake is a bit harsh and that possibly the only mistake he made was trusting those who passed him the information.
As has been discussed already, the issue is the media - that's why I can't just accept the one sided story we hear from them, certainly we'll never know the truth either way but we have to be open minded about what the possible truth is and can't just blindly have faith in the media's claims that Tony lied - after all, just food for thought perhaps the fact the goverment did get off so easily is because they really were rather innocent in it all and it's merely typical media bias that's trying to depict them as liars. Again I'm certainly not saying that's the truth but it's something worth thinking about otherwise we're simply letting the media blind them with crap. Each time the media are proven as lying about something and then never make a correction or apology about it so the masses never know the truth it makes me wonder what else more important they lie about.
Don't get me wrong I'm not defending Labour here, nor am I saying I beleive they were innocent in it all, I'm partly just playing devils advocate and partly saying you can't just totally blame Tony himself because he could've been somewhat setup as a puppet by those who did want to go to war for some alternate reason - Tony is a powerful person and he seems like a pretty decent person too, that's why I think to assume it was his personal mistake is a bit harsh and that possibly the only mistake he made was trusting those who passed him the information.
As has been discussed already, the issue is the media - that's why I can't just accept the one sided story we hear from them, certainly we'll never know the truth either way but we have to be open minded about what the possible truth is and can't just blindly have faith in the media's claims that Tony lied - after all, just food for thought perhaps the fact the goverment did get off so easily is because they really were rather innocent in it all and it's merely typical media bias that's trying to depict them as liars. Again I'm certainly not saying that's the truth but it's something worth thinking about otherwise we're simply letting the media blind them with crap. Each time the media are proven as lying about something and then never make a correction or apology about it so the masses never know the truth it makes me wonder what else more important they lie about.
OFFICER XEST - PROTECTING YOU AGAINST FORUM CRIME
Che Xefan, el presidente.
Che Xefan, el presidente.
Its the thin end of the wedge thingy mate - thread ban today and tomorrow only Xest has access to the forums!! Plus your missing the point he is friendly with Tony and Tony has been very good at 'shutting up' some of the more colourful parts of the Labour Party.....Ankh Morpork wrote:Don't worry, it's just a thread bann
/Ankh
Na Fianna Dragun
Karak-Eight Peaks, Kiera ze Witch Hunter
Eve online - Kaminjosvig.
Karak-Eight Peaks, Kiera ze Witch Hunter
Eve online - Kaminjosvig.
Yes it's not a full on ban - as he was incapable of adding anything useful to this thread in particular he's removed from it. It's just a thread ban, his comments were completely out of place here. I've even said if he intends to add anything useful instead of just baiting he can PM me and have it lifted.Sharkith wrote:Xest chill - there is not need to go ballistic. Someone sitting on the side of a conversation basiclly thinks your mad - what else is new. Banning him kind of provides evidence that you might actually BE MAD!!
OFFICER XEST - PROTECTING YOU AGAINST FORUM CRIME
Che Xefan, el presidente.
Che Xefan, el presidente.
