Terror Bomb in London

[Tare]

even though u have shitloads of arabs, it's still British people they were attacking, and if someone arabs get killed in the blast, tough. But if you would attack the world championship, you are actually attacking arabic countries. Big difference.

[Sharkith]

What is most frustrating about this situation is that these groups have a complete lack of political goals or ambition. This is the crux of the problem. If they would at least develop a political consciousness then the world might begin to understand their motivations and so on. All they seem to be is a collective bunch of fanatics with no real goal other than the destruction of anything that looks bad to them - even when they get out of the wrong side of the bed.

They kill Muslim, Christian, Jew and whatever other faith indiscriminately - there can be no real political motivation here. For these reasons there can not seriously be any real engagement with their goals or even a process of beginning to understand them. This is what makes it so sickening.

Sharkith

[Ankh Morpork]

What is seriously sad is that 37 people have died and there will certainly be more who will die as a result of their injuries. These deaths are as futile as the 'cause' that spawned the attacks.

It's a tragedy indeed...kind of like the 100.000+ innocent civilian iraqis who has died cos of the war or the thousands more that will die cos of it.

/Ankh

[Adianna]

It's a tragedy indeed...kind of like the 100.000+ innocent civilian iraqis who has died cos of the war or the thousands more that will die cos of it.

/Ankh

It's also a tragedy that every 3 seconds a child in the third world dies of starvation as we would have enough to give enough food to everyone... Yet we can be happy that they die because the world is already near (or already over) the maximum amount of human beings it can sustain...

This here has nothing to do with numbers. I don't support the Iraqi War, neither do I support the war in Afghanistan. Waging war against each other is always the wrong way to do it... I don't know if there would have been a right way to do it, guess we'll never find out.

The real tragedy is that whenever humans try to enforce something with violence, no matter who, the innocent are the first who get hurt, not the ones who deserve it (if someone really can deserve something like that).

I hope that childofkain will be alright. I hope no one else will get involved in such things ever again (which I know isn't very likely). And upmost I hope that mankind will learn someday that there are better ways to deal with problems.

[Sharkith]

It's a tragedy indeed...kind of like the 100.000+ innocent civilian iraqis who has died cos of the war or the thousands more that will die cos of it.

/Ankh

Yes Ankh I was one of the million that protested against the war - it was an outrage and it still unfuriates me. I also lived my whole life in a situation where the sort of incident that we had yesterday was defined by the government as an acceptible level of violence. At least in our situation we knew who represented those who would carry out such attacks and eventually we could talk. The secret was in the political struggle replacing the bomb and bullet. At this moment in time we do not have that avenue with the groups who it looks like forced this attack.

I hope that some of the indications that we have had recently are right, that the groups doing this will eventually develop some political consciousness otherwise there is simply no end to this.

There has to be communication without it the situation is hopeless especially with America gearing up for political action against other states like Iran it is going to get worse.

Sharkith

[Ankh Morpork]

Actually, it has alot to do with numbers. You really cant expect the people in the middle east to sit back and accept the fact that US/UK attacked them. Its concidered a tragedy when European/American innocent people get killed...but when the arab (and soon persian I guess) innocents get killed they are just part of a war. Terrorism is as big part of the war as the ones that die in actual combat. I dont agree or support with terrorists in anyway, but at the same time I can understand why they do such desperate things towards their enemies. They are facing the most powerful army in the world so what else is there to do? When a country goes to war cos of money (oil in iraq's case) people seem to understand them...but when they fight for their lives or freedom people just cant seem to be able to understand them. Im pretty sure that the arabs (if it actually was arabs) would much more prefer to live and see another day and try and defeat their enemies using diplomacy - but diplomacy wont actually work when their opponents have enough firepower to wipe them off the earth.

But hopefully someday in the future we peace for all nationalities and no more terror attacks (but I doubt it).

Oh btw, iraq was just an example...if you want to find reasons for anyone to make an attack on U.K or U.S you will just need very little research to realize that there are enough of reasons to dislike them...actually, there are more reasons to dislike them than to like them. (if that makes sense)

Edit: Notice im talking about the people who might have done the attack, not myself (even though I do dislike U.S)

/Ankh

[Adianna]

The most powerful army at least tries not to hit innocent... although it's hardly possible to succeed in that. The terrorists however are directly aiming at civilians, they aren't fighting for a higher goal. Okay, I don't know what goal Bush was after besides the oil and his second 4 years as US president.
I'd say Bush himself has to hold himself responsible for war crimes at the tribunal in Den Haag,... but that doesn't make the terrorists more honorable or something.

[Ankh Morpork]

The most powerful army at least tries not to hit innocent... although it's hardly possible to succeed in that. The terrorists however are directly aiming at civilians, they aren't fighting for a higher goal. Okay, I don't know what goal Bush was after besides the oil and his second 4 years as US president.
I'd say Bush himself has to hold himself responsible for war crimes at the tribunal in Den Haag,... but that doesn't make the terrorists more honorable or something.

No way he will go to Haag...the Yanks are refusing to let anyone of their soldiers stand trial in Haag. Bush is a neocon along with most of his goverment - ie, if you dont like their culture they will force it on you. Not sure if I agree on the 'at least tries not to hit innocent' using napalm/clusterbombs and uranium based ammunition doesnt really sound like trying to avoid innocents. Putting an embargo on a country isnt really avoiding innocents either.. but thats just my oppinion. Anyway, I dont wanna work myself up to a frenzy over this subject again (I always do ) so ill just leave this thread to the people who are actually involved in the bombings in London.

Edit: yes, the stuff I mentioned was by the yanks, but since Blair is their lapdog its no wonder U.k got involved in the terrorist attacks (but unlike the yanks atleast you had some experience with how to handle it cos of IRA)

/Ankh

[Adianna]

No way he will go to Haag...the Yanks are refusing to let anyone of their soldiers stand trial in Haag. Bush is a neocon along with most of his goverment - ie, if you dont like their culture they will force it on you.

Well... 60 years ago, several people were judged by them just a few kilometers south of here for waging war against another country... a pitty that they don't apply that to their own people... It's a crime whoever commits it, and I feel somehow sad that he can get away with it.

Yet terrorists aren't any better... I think it doesn't matter if someone drops a bomb on your head or runs in between you and blasts himself up. Both are just cowardly actions and there is no justification for comitting them.

A german politician (ironically he was minister of defence later on) made the statement "Whoever takes a weapon in his hand again, should loose his hand."

[Flippant Desires]

even though u have shitloads of arabs, it's still British people they were attacking, and if someone arabs get killed in the blast, tough. But if you would attack the world championship, you are actually attacking arabic countries. Big difference.

You really have a very simplistic view of what an 'arab' is. It's like generalising Africa as full of Africans and Europe is full of Europeans. It completly brushes over the nationalities, religions, ethnic groupings, and cultures.

The world championships would be just as good a target as the olympics, extremists are targetting a way of life, not the countries - for them these games are just as legitimate a target as any other.

If you honestly think 'arab won't kill arab', then how dow you explain the 100k estimated to have died in Iraq, the majority of which from 'arab' bombs targetting 'arabs'.

If you now think it's because of some american link, think again. If the US/British/Italian/Danish and all the rest, pulled out today, there would be civil war in Iraq as the extremists attempt to convert the country to an extreme clerical state.